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tv   MSNBC Live With Katy Tur  MSNBC  January 17, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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the support that you can imagine with my family. imagine what it is like for young women out there who don't. >> for those of you who have been asking us how to make a difference on the shutdown. you can donate to your local food pantry and national parks and call your senators or representatives, helping furloughed workers or get creative. we'll keep putting this out. >> you can post. if you have odd jobs around your house and you can afford to pay someone. put a listing out there. it is not an official job but maybe someone in your neighborhood that can use the cash. >> katy tur picks up our coverage right now. >> or you can e-mail one of us. we got an e-mail from a gentleman named wayne, it is amazing. >> it is amazing. >> it makes you feel good. >> stephanie and a li, thank yo
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so much. one thing that's consistent of the white house is its narrative on russia that it has consistently changing. thanks to rudy giuliani, last night it shifted again. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign? >> yes, you have. >> i have not. >> i said the president of the united states. there is not a single bit of evidence that the president of the united states committed the only crime, conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. rudy giuliani clarified those remarks or lat least trying to saying i represent only the president and not the trump campaign. there was collusion by president trump in any way, shape or form. first the campaign and rudy giuliani and donald trump claimed the campaign had no contact with russians then yes
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there was contact but no meetings. yes, there were meetings but they were not significance. nothing of substance to discuss, just adoptions. we learned that on one of those meetings it was set up for russian lawyer to offer dirt on hillary clinton. we learned that michael flynn discussed with the russian ambassador. it had to be moved once again. rudy giuliani then adopted this defense. collusion if it did happen, is it a crime? he's moving a lot lately. some speculate that rudy giuliani must know what's coming. maybe he's getting a heads up from a filing or questions from reporters or etc. others say he's not the lawyer he used to be and just spouts off whatever at the top of mind even if it is not true. which is it? does rudy giuliani know everything or nothing at all?
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>> peter baker is joining me. he's also an msnbc political analyst. daily beast white house reporter and our barbara mcquay, welcome everybody. rudy giuliani is trying to clarify himself. he's saying no, he never said those things and that there was no collusion. we have gone back and track all the times he had said it. we know the manafort team posted without redacting it properly was giving over polling information to our associate of his. one that had links to intelligence. we know about the fliynn stuff and don jr. stuff. what's happening here with rudy giuliani? >> you don't want to get unto somebody's else knowing more. even if he's deliberately trying
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to shift strategy and that's basically safing the president and making sure there is no suspicion on him or anybody else or there is some concerns within the trump team of what mueller may come up with and whether they can maintain line that there is no collusion, period, right? the president have not distinguished between himself and his campaign. he says there is no collusion and the whole yours truly is a host. he's not trying to say it is possible that there are people colluding underneath me and i want to get to the bottom of it. he simply says it did not happen, period. it is possible that it happened without mhis knowledge. manafort has economic and business ties to russia and ukraine. it is possible that she's showing off or planting the seeds for his own future businesses and it is not apart of the campaign's effort. we don't know the answer to that
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question. presumably, robert mueller does. >> eli, what are your sources saying? >> rudy giuliani of all knowing or knowing nothing at all, that's anyone's guest. to go out there and protect the president and what you see of this long standing political response to this legal matter, the strategy has always been if you keep the public, the supporter with trump you keep that right where it is, that'll protect him against impeachment or whatever comes back from these investigations. obviously, rudy's ability to do that is called into question. now that rudy basically removed
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the gulf coast so many times. it falls in line of the behavior that you see. it makes you question that these people, whatever happens of this investigation will indicavitami them. we have seen behaviors that leads to questions whether it is the president writing false statements on air force one about that 2016 meeting at trump tower or the new reporting that we got by "the washington post" of the fact that trump confiscated notes from the interpreter, the stenographer and rudy's constant shifting. all these things are not behavior of people who feel they have a clean conscious and nothing to hide. >> what do you think? >> rudy giuliani coming out and saying a thing and having two or
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four times after and to clean up his remark and quote on quote, "clarify" those remark has sort of becoming a bizarre and generally reoccurring hallmark of syria. i mean this happened to me a while ago when rudy giuliani was talking to me and it was shortly after the rask round of michael cohen stuff came out. this was not a big crime. he had to clean that up. the staple was supposed to be his position which is oh, no crime was committed and the campaign finance violation that cohen went down for was a ruse or a hoax.
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when rudy giuliani goes out in front of the camera as eli pointed out earlier. rudy giuliani's main role is to go out there and lovingly and enthusiastically step on land mine for president trump and almost enthusiastic than anybody. >> he's sent out there to fight. the president wants somebody on tv yelling back on his behalf. >> absolutely.
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>> he said trump reimbursed cohen for hush payment for stormy daniels. he said it on "hannity." he forced trump to say he'll get his facts straight. he says melania believes trump and knows the accusations is not true. he says kim jong-un got back on his hands and knees and begged for the summit in singapore forcing pompeo to say rudy giuliani does not speak for the administration when it comes to north korea. he does not know key things of cohen/daniels' case. he's been all over the place. it may be a few pr strategy more than anything else barbara, what impact does he have? >> i think much of this is deliberate strategy.
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it is a deliberate strategy that prosecutors use and sometimes referred to diffusing bomb shell. this idea of saying i never said members of the campaign - it is not accurate but if he says it enough time, it suggests to me that he does know that there are in facts that are likely to come out. the facts we already know can be characterized as collusion. it seems likely to me that he knows damaging facts. >> the wall street journal michael cohen paying off and trying to manipulate polls of donald trump. business prowless and polls
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about debates. campaign finance issues, are they raised here barbara? >> i think they could be. when we were prosecuting cases. we would talk about is it crime or slime? this is certainly slime. i don't know if it amounts to crime. slime being shady operations and political tricks. some of the things that manipulated polling data could be. what campaign finance lost tries to do is provide transparency so there is disclosures and people know who's paying who. if michael cohen and behalf of the trump's campaign was paying consultants -- >> it was before he announced he was running for president. >> you know campaign only has duties to disclose once the campaign is disclose. maybe not if there is not a
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campaign or if there is no duty to report. >> peter, what's the largest significance of this. michael cohen is saying donald trump directed him to do it? >> he's saying that the president of the united states was actively involved in a series of issues that were not just simply his fixer taking care on his own. finance campaign crime and another case of an under hand in politics. he's taking away the deniability of the president. what the president will say is michael cohen is a liar. he lied to congress and he pleaded guilty to that and therefore you should not believe what he's saying. he's got an incentive. what we'll see very soon is michael cohen telling us in public. he's going to come before the
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house of representatives on february 7th and he's going to testify and ask under oath and people see how he respond accordingly. >> eli, i spoke to a source close to michael cohen today who says cohen feels that the president is targeting him and his family in order to intimidate him and in order to undermine mhis credibility and his livelihood. before the public realm before he says anything, trump knows michael cohen is a threat and what the trump's world is doing is everything to tear michael cohen down. how worried is the white house about cohen? is that a name that's whispered in the halls? >> i think they are worried about a lot of things. michael cohen knows how the president operates because he was the guy for so many years who was assigned to go out there and tear other people down, to
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skill stories and intimidate. he knows what he's dealing with. at the white house, the president himself believes that if it is a credibility contest between himself and michael cohen, he feels okay about that. most of the nervousness right now has to do with what has not come out of the investigation, perhaps, indictment to come and how they're going to rebut that more so than the things that michael cohen has said publicly or going to say publicly in the future. >> barbara mcquade and peter baker. gu and eli stokols, thank you all. up next, president trump says he's getting crushed in the shutdown battle. the polls agree. [cell phone rings]
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yesterday nancy pelosi, the speaker of the house did not invite donald trump, asking him to delay or write a letter instead because of the shutdown. today the white house and the president have responded and they issued their own letter. this one is to nancy pelosi. dear madame speaker, due to the shutdown, i am sorry to inform you that your trips have been
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postponed. in light of the great american workers not rereceiceiving pay, sure of postponing this event is totally inappropriate. joining the strong border movement to end the shutdown. obviously if you would like to make your journey by flying commercial, that would be your prerogative. i look forward to see you soon. finally receive the attention funding and security it so desperately deserves. sincerely donald trump. it looks interesting because i don't remember seeing nancy pelosi was traveling to any of these places. i wonder if anybody will know this better than i will if the president outed a classified trip that nancy pelosi was going
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to make for afghanistan. kelly o'donell is at the white house. i do want to g-- kelly, any ide is coming? >> reporter: i was speaking with white house officials who say this should be interpreted as a look at the calendar. the next time federal employees would miss their paychecks is tuesday at midnight. congressional delegation trip out of the country for a period of days, it would cover that time frame. from the white house's point of view, the speaker of the house is out of that country, there is no chance of getting a resolution to the shutdown and no chance that legislation could be passed through the house and the senate and onto the president's desk. the president controls military aircraft and it is used for these kinds of delegation trips and also the speaker of the house can make herself, she can
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use her craft in her role. so, this is the president in effect pulling the trip in order to guarantee the president, the speaker of the house in washington with the hope that they can continue to negotiate. if we saw a power move from the speaker to pull the plug on the state of the union for january 29th, here is the counter punch that we had been waiting for not directly involving with the state of the union but another way to use the tools and power in washington in different ways to try to compel some sort of negotiation or frustration here at the white house. among the people who have been working on behalf of the negotiating team is there has not been any negotiating. >> yeah. >> democrats of course say no wall, the white house says wall, and here we are. this is highly unusual. >> did we know when this trip
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was? >> not publicly but congressional delegation trip happens regularly and the speaker often takes them and they are typically bipartisan including members from different groups and sometimes it is senate and house and the trip itself is typically not classified. it is usually public events that go around it. i don't know the exact itinerary or if there is any elements to this. if it is routined for members of congress and especially during the federal holiday and monday is martin luther king jr. day. this is a typical kind of thing, highly unusual to pull the aircraft. >> you don't announce you are going to afghanistan when you are a lawmaker until you get there. kelly, stick with us, congressman dan kildee is also here. what's your response? >> it is an example of how petty and small the president can be. on tuesday the speaker made it
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clear that all members are going to be in washington. it is not as business as usual for us. we'll be here ledj legislating. speaker made the it clear that all bets are off. we are going to stay here to do our work until we get a solution. >> are you saying this trip was not on the table before the shutdown ended? >> the president referenced to the in fact we are not here and should not be anywhere but washington. the speaker made it clear that's her intention that we cancel next week's district period and we'll be here in washington ready to legislate as soon as the president releases mitch mcconnell from the requirements that he is placed on his employee to open his job and
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we'll be able to open the government. that's all he has to do. >> how do you think the public is seeing this? we got one letter from pelosi disinviting him to the state of union. the white house did not respond for a day and polls, their own letter and has some jabs in the middle of it of public relation events for nancy pelosi to go overseas saying she can fly commercial. wh >> i hope they continue to see the president's action is being quite petty. the people business dozen gauge wi gauge -- does engage across the globe. for the president to trivialize
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that -- >> the president is being petty and that democrats are at some point, i know the polls right now says most people are blaming the president. are you confident that public opinion is not going to shift? >> well, i think public opinion so far continues to hold that the president who announced he wanted the shutdown will be held responsible for it. i think we have to be careful not to measure public settlement only through polling and make decisions accordingly. we have to do what we think is right. the speaker is taking that decision. the president essentially launched this effect to have the shutdown in order to confiscate other problems that he was having. he needs to do is job. >> the president today spoke about nancy pelosi says there are democrats who wants to negotiate but she's not letting them. she says the party had been
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hijacked by the open border fringe. are there democrats that want to negotiate that nancy pelosi is saying no to? >> i spoke to some of those democrats that went to the white house. they saw no indication that he was serious about negotiating. those are their words and not mine. every one of us wanted to negotiate. there is not a single democrat that i know that takes the position that we do not have border security. this is a question about whether or not we'll play into the president's effort to confiscate his other problems by creating a crisis in order to divert attention from the really significant collapse of this administration. >> there is a false narrative, somehow we are divided. we have different points of view. i was in the caucus meeting, i was there this morning and i heard folks saying the same thing. we are right on this. the american people are with us,
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why are we not taking another tab? >> how long are you willing to let this go? >> until the president comes to his senses or republicans in the senate decide they're going to claim back the constitutional authority that the framer gave them as if they are full-time employees of the trump organization. that's what's going on here. sometimes the simplest answer is right. they thought that was the right public policy choice until donald trump gave them orders to the contrary. >> i get that. he's the president of the united states. and everything is funded for a
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period of time while you guys try to work out funding down the line and border security. i understand that. if the president is not going to move and if democrats are not going to move and this thing drags on, at what point will the cries from this 800,000 federal workers and not to mention the thousands and perhaps many more that are in directly affected by this shutdown. at what point will their suffering, the fbi has opened a food pantry in new york, a food pantry. at what point though is it going to be incumbent upon somebody to relent? >> that moment is right now. we continue to relent. in fact, we pass -- the senate pass the spending bill. we took the republican crafted,
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senate passed bill and pass that legislation to give the senate a chance to say yes to something they already agreed to. that moment is now. the moment where somebody needs to reel in is now. if however we take the position that in order to solve this problem, we are going to buy into this notion that the president can have a tantrum, threatening over one item that we disagree with about to shutdown the federal government. that president is now essentially going to be able to dictate any terms he likes. that's not what the framer anticipated. they expected it would be a moment where we have a president. that's why they vested so much authorities in the legislative branch. we do not need the president of the united states to reopen the government. we do not need him. we can do it on our own by passing two-thirds of the majority. the bill that was already passed a few weeks ago.
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>> i don't know what your schedule is like. if you can stick around with us, i would like to bring in a couple of people. if you can that's great and if you can't, i understand. >> we have our msnbc contributor and our director programming and our political analyst. brett, what's your take? >> i have a shot at high school and grade school. all of them have a better grasp of capitalization. >> they did spell prerogative right which i was surprised. >> i was impressed by that. >> the bar is so low. >> look, this is the president who's losing. he's losing politically, he knows it and we know. he knows that we know that he's losing. this is the only word for this
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is childish. yeah, what about your trip to afghanistan? people understand that's more important to put 800,000 americans to work and prevent the further deterioration of government services and that deterioration is coming. everyone knows the president had an opportunity to pass for two years when he had a republican control. >> he was offered a lot of money for r the border wall. >> what we are watching is the death rattle of the effects of trump presidency. >> what do you think? >> i agree this is childish. where is mitch mcconnell? he's the person that can end the shutdown. that's just a fact and so if we
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skip over that point. >> mcconnell can over ride the president's veto. >> why is he not doing that? that's what he's supposed to do. if you are going to be the leader of a party in congress, you need to run the government. make sure it stays opened and make sure these folks are getting paid. there is no reason people are going to work without paychecks. that's ridiculous. >> for the last two and a half years, the republican party essentially been a hostage of the trumpian party and they feel they need to jump every time the president barks. never mind the case for government, think of the purely conservative belief that we have coequal branches of government that congress is a coequal branch and it has to assumes its responsibilities. the congressman made an
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incredibly important and valid point which this did not require the extent of the president and the shutdown. congress used to over ride presidential vetoes. they did so frequently and other times and they can do it now and help 800,000 people feed their children. >> congressman, the white house says this was not a tic-for-tac that this was a good faith effort by the president of the united states to keep the speaker in town in order to negotiate on the shutdown. that's her reporting from kelly o'donell and halie jackson and peter alexander. do you think that this is a good faith effort? could you see it that way? >> obviously not. it is ridiculous. i was in the meeting this morning, we are going to be here on tuesday and ready to work. we are ready to take up any legislation that the president may sign or any legislation with
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sufficient votes to pass it without the president's signature. this is the president essentially being a man-baby all over again. >> kelly o'donell, do you think the house is going to respond on the president being a man-baby. >> reporter: i am going to pass on this one. the other thing i want to share about is pelosi surprised the white house postponing the january 29th date which is her prerogative to invite the president for a joint session of congress. we still have no answer from the white house on that issue. i have been told by multiple sources that a plan walkth throh involving all security and there are many secret services and capitol police and many agencies and departments and offices within the federal government were scheduled for the first of
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several of these walk throughs in preparations. it was yesterday. so speaker pelosi definitely wants to make certain that, i won't say that i know her motive, her action was set into motion that would be postpone. the white house has not commented on that. we are not expecting any comment and i am told they are not looking for an alternate location. there is so many other urgent matters that's happening right now on their plate. in terms of anticipating a response on that particular issue which yesterday our guidance was maybe something coming quickly, clearly that's not happening. they are not addressing that. this move is a way to try to shine a light on what people in the white house would say is the speaker wanting it both ways, to be talking about negotiations and upbringing people together and having a plan trip.
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as congressman kildee points out that speaker pelosi was not taking it. >> did you know that? >> i have no idea. i will tell you this. this is a woman who'll take all responsibilities extraordinary. he works ha she works harder than anybody here on the globe. president trump should take a lesson from her. if he worked that hard, he would not ha and we would not have a problem. >> reporter: she's a global figure now. >> you don't go around advertising that -- she's going to a dangerous place. >> reporter: part of it
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according to the eye fortin nit. the white house would have access to knowing that because of the military aircraft and they found an opportunity and thayer thay they exercised it and whether the republicans think it is appropriate for tic-or-tac. >> back in 2017 covering donald trump, there was a lot of talk that no way he would win. if he did win, it would be complete and utter chaos. the government would not work. donald trump has no idea what he's doing. >> we are living through that. >> i would add another point is that i long thought the goals of the russians, the goal of the russians, if you read malcolm
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nans's book, their goal is to distill the west. anybody watching tv would agree that's what's happening. >> it is operation chaos. he's bringing management skills he brought to atlantic city to the united states government. >> it leads to your column, was it today you wrote it about brexit and the u.s.? >> we have a rather less west, because of vladimir putin and threats from china and the bubbling up of populous and bigoted movement around the world. this is a frightening moment to have this kind of function at the core. do you think world war ii when you have fdr and churchill, this is a very different war. >> i have one question for the congressm congressman. the cover story of atlantic is all about impeachment so that the founders did not want it as
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something that would blow up democracy that something that would protect democracy and this debate that this country is having about donald trump's fitness for office is not getting an adequate airing it should be getting. should not be happening in the house with an impeachment hearing and articles brought to the table. not necessarily taking the president out of office but it would establish a baseline for what is acceptable as for a president and what is not. what do you think of that? >> i don't know if it will come of that. there is so much writing of the investigation. >> let's talk about his conduct in office and the way he speaks about people and targets individual americans. he's intimidating witnesses and calling african nations s-hole countries and blowing up alliances and taking notes away
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from the sborinterpreter. the list goes on and on. what more do the house need in order to debate fitness for office. >> those are behaviors that are outside the norms of common decency, led alone the president of the united states. the weight of the mueller report is something that we ought to consider. >> there is a constitutional provision to correct a rogue presidency short of impeachment. it is article one, operationalized. for the people elected to the house and the senate simply to do the job that the framers expected of them. even with the president's horrendous behavior, the essence of that behavior by the senate republicans who seemed to be willing essentially to hand over the franchise that their voters proved to them to donald trump
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to use at his whim. mitch mcconnell. seriously, this is amazing. he acts as though he's an employee of donald trump. he has said, he'll not take action without the permission of the president. just think about how the frame works and who wrote this elegant document -- would respond to see these tools being set aside in the name of some to a president that is the clearly psychologically unstable. >> there is another constitutional tool and it is in the 25th amendment. >> that's right. > >> the president surrounded himself around sycophants. just a few steps away from where i stand right now in the united states senate, rest the complete authorities to end the problem
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that we have right now and exercise our duties. congressman dan kildee. >> same to brett stevens and angelina maxwell. >> you were right, i was wrong. >> next, a new report from the government watchdog says the president's d.c. hotel may be a violation of the constitution. people overlooked it when he became president. let's see, aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol extra strength.
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according to a new report from that agency inspector general. once he did, once he was elected, the general services administration which was the ones that hang onto that lease should decide whether the lease violates the monument causes of the constitution. it did not. the hotel has hosted events for a number of foreign embassies and one state governor. joining me now, all things number and money. david farenthol. david, it is so good to see you.
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the monument is part of the constitution that says a president can't essentially take a bribe from a foreign country or a state if he's in office and the argument is that this hotel by foreign leaders staying there diplomats and we have seen a number of them or the governor of mainste staying there in efft of bribes because they are putting money in their pockets. >> a couple of lawsuits are making that point now. when the framers put these clauses in the constitution, these are the original anticorruption statues. they're making sure that the president did not have private relationships with foreign countries or individual states that corrupt his decision making towards them as president. what we saw in this case was the general service administration as they are deciding letting a sitting president have a lease on a federal building. they decided not to make their
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business and kind of ignore it. >> so the fact that they nignord it and the inspector general calls them out on it. what happens now? >> there are two lawsuits. one by the democrats and congress and one by d.c. and maryland attorney general. it could be used in those. as far as the gsa, will it cancel trump's lease. the gsa inspector general after all the opportunities that were missed and things that were properly ignored, in the future, try to do it better. >> wow, what about house ovoveo site? >> the president is using to do business with foreign countries. >> it is not just the d.c.
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hotel. we should be clear about that. although d.c. hotel is owned by the foreign government, donald trump properties all around this country essentially paying the president money to stay there. you have foreign government and diplomats saying that they are saying it is property because they believe that's the proper thing to do when you are in town to visit the president of the united states. >> that's right. that has happened before and the most recent examples was last year. the flip philippines, hay htheya party at the trump's hotel in d.c. this is part of building a relationship with donald trump. david, always good to see you my friend. >> thank you. >> the family separation crisis is even more dire than we thought. according to a new report from the department of health and services, thousands more children have been separated
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than previously known. the separation dates back all the way to the summer of 2017. that's well before the zero tolerance security came into effect. joining me is julia ainsley. >> these students are less fortunate.
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the ones that they separated was
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because of the interest of medical or security of interest of the child. >> was there any reason that this is happening of this policy or this practice dates back even further? >> based on my reporting, katy, yes, there were separations under the obama administration but it was different. it was very serious crimes and the numbers don't seem to be as high. other thing to point out is that we know that beginning of the trump administration, february of 2017, they were already talking about separation as a deterrent and they started a pi program in el paso of what would become zero tolerance. >> that almost made me cry as well. thank you so much. >> thanks, caskatie. >> up next, does iowa still have steve kings back. ?
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the house ethics committee is now considering senturing steve king. he has questioned how the terms white nationalist, white supr e supremist, and more racist. is the punishment enough in that
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including the sioux city journal and the des moines register both calling for his registration. but he just won reelection, so how do the people that voted for him feel? let's go to fort dodge, iowa, one of the best places to get tac tacos, in case you didn't know that, how did they know this? >> yeah, they knew this, it should not be a surprise because he has a sis tire of them, but despite that he has won time after time. he won his reelection again by 3.5%. today, they released an edit editorial saying it is now clear that the endorsement was a
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mistake, but those voters that did vote for him in november, have they changed their mind? these are two that we spoke to earlier. >> he must have bumped his head or something. if he has to act like that, go home and go in the bathroom and talk with the door closed because you no business talking about that in washington. >> how did that language become offensive. >> it wasn't offensive to me. people that think it is offensive need to get a damn backbone and shut the hell up. >> what i want to point out about the last woman you just heard from there is what she continued to say after this. it goes beyond steve kind and western civilization. he is not the only one we have
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had conversations with where the fear tactics have had an impact on voters she said that democrats need to get out of office, there is an invasion. illegals taking jobs across iowa. she was willing to go on camera but we have engaged in conversations like that who take the words of steve king and the president and take that to the next step when it comes to these political issues. >> and anyone telling them otherwise to push back on those beliefs, that issue is cast aside and doubted. >> they say they don't know what to trust. they don't trust the news, fake news, but the first man you heard from voted republican his whole life, voted for donald trump, and he is now open to
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changing his mind. >> john, go get tacos and send me a picture. appreciate it. that will do it for me this hour, ali, the white house just confirmed that nancy pelosi was supposed to get on a plane around 3:00 this afternoon. the trips are held very tightly. going to a place like investigati afghanistan, you don't advertise it, just like you don't advertise the president going there. the president outed her there, that means they will be on alert for here in the future and he did so to push back on, i think they're going to deny this, he did so to push back on her disinviting him from the -- >> he called it an excursion. a public relations event. today has been full of those kind of stories where

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